Archive for the ‘Misc. Theology’ Category

Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4.5: P.S. On Dealing with Stereotypes

Saturday, February 14th, 2009

I had a couple more thoughts to add to my last entry on dealing with stereotypes.

1.) The best place for talking about stereotypes.

I said:

And the best way to defend ourselves is not to have to.  For our message and our lives to be so clear and so well-known, that we never have to try to defend ourselves.

The idea there is that we’re inoculating people against the stereotypes.  (When they’re not true, anyway.)

But that has a major exception:  People who don’t know us at all.  People whose perceptions are formed by what they see on TV or read on the internet.  And something about those venues seems to propagate stereotypes.  For instance, “Christians being Christ-like” isn’t likely to make the news.  (Even Fox News.)  What’s more likely to make the news is when a prominent Christian sticks his foot in his mouth.  And then there’s the Internet, where what sticks out are the flame wars and loudmouths.

That’s probably the best situation for pointing out the stereotypes, assuming we can do it without whining–when we’re dealing with people who just don’t know conservative Christians.  (Inoculation works better to prevent stereotypes, than to cure stereotypes.)

Still, though—as much as possible, I want to fix the stereotypes simply by being clearly Christ-like and Christ-honoring in our words and deeds, pointing to Him and the truth He taught.

2.) “Bad” stereotypes that aren’t really bad.

Sometimes, the “bad” stereotypes are true—but they’re not actually bad!  That happens in two ways:

  1. Christ offended a lot of people.  If we’re doing everything exactly right, and communicating Him well, then He’s going to offend them through us.  Sometimes.  (And other times, His goodness & love overwhelms.)
  2. Misunderstood or poorly-done truths.  Take evangelism.  We’re stereotyped as being into “proselytism”.  Which is true. (Depending on your definition of “proselytism”.)  But sometimes, the”bad” stereotype comes from evangelism done poorly.  Or evangelism misunderstood.  (What if people see evangelism as, “Join my religious club” instead of “Know and understand Christ, and the stunning grace of what he has done”?  What if they see televangelists inviting people to receive Jesus and send in their money?)

So the answer here is pretty much the same.  Speak and live clearly.  And make sure that if people are offended, they are being offended by Christ–not by us.

Further Reading

Summer White, And Then I Got Punched In The Worldview

Summer White is the daughter of Dr. James R. White, of Alpha & Omega Ministries.  She recently blogged about an experience at her college, dealing with stereotypes. You might check it out–how well do you think she handled it?

Dan Kimball, They Like Jesus, But Not the Church

Dan Kimball comes from the more conservative wing of the Emerging Church.  The title is pretty expressive.  I liked this book, though I’m not claiming it’s perfect.  (It’s been a while since I read it, so I don’t clearly recall what there might be to criticize.)  It’s worth reading, especially if you keep in mind a couple things: (1) The “Jesus” people often like is a watered-down Jesus—a pop Jesus who only ever says nice things, except when he’s cutting down religious conservatives.  (2) When Kimball talks about areas where people “like Jesus but not the Church”, he is not saying that the church is necessarily doing something wrong there.  He does advocate correcting misunderstandings.

Update: Here’s the entire series:
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 1: Slogans & the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 3: Hypocrisy, Stereotyping, and the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4: Dealing with Stereotypes
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4.5: P.S. On Dealing with Stereotypes

Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4: Dealing with Stereotypes

Tuesday, February 10th, 2009

In the previous entry from this series, I mentioned stereotypes—in this case, how conservatives are stereotyped as narrow-minded, as selfish, as hateful, or as smug, Pharisaical, self-righteous  judgmental jerks.  So… What do we do with that?  How should we respond? (Edit: I’ll say up front that sometimes the stereotypes are true. And I should add that this would apply to dealing with any kind of stereotype–including conservative stereotypes about liberals.)

I have a few thoughts—an overarching perspective, and then a list of miscellaneous points.

It’s going to involve a combination of words & actions.  Words to point out the stereotyping, words to communicate what we mean & believe, and actions in keeping with what we say.  I’m not precisely sure what the balance should be between them, but I suspect it should and lean toward latter two.   (“They’re stereotyping us” isn’t an inherently interesting or helpful subject.  Talking about Christ, the Gospel, and the Scriptures is—along with acting like Christ.)

And the best way to defend ourselves is not to have to.  For our message and our lives to be so clear and so well-known, that we never have to try to defend ourselves.  For people to be so familiar with us that they know who we are.  For us to be so pervasively, consistently Christ-like, clearly communicating the Gospel, that we cannot be unjustly stereotyped.

And of course, that assumes that the stereotypes are unjust.  Which isn’t always the case!  (We all live out stereotypes, sometimes.)

Thoughts to ponder:

  1. How often is there truth in the stereotypes?  How often are there real negative experiences behind people’s bad perceptions of Christianity and/or conservatives?  How compelling will such people find it when we simply insist that we’re not really like that?  (Counter-thought: How often are people oversensitive about their past experience? How often do they use it as an excuse to broadbrush?)
  2. Talking about the stereotypes is limited in its usefulness.  “They’re stereotyping us” is helpful if done right, but we have to be careful that it doesn’t become complaining or whining.  After all…if the stereotypes are true, we’ll spend a lot more time & energy decrying “them dang lib’rals & the lib’ral media” than we’ll spend talking about Christ and bearing fruit in service & love.
  3. It will be hypocritical for us to complain about the stereotypes, if we don’t do a good job of cleaning house, seeking to be above reproach.  I don’t know if actions speak louder than words, but they’re sure important for backing them up.  (Along those lines, see the previous entry on service.)
  4. We need to be clear that we truly see ourselves as fellow sinners in need of a savior. We need to be clear that the Gospel is not, “Become a church-goer—be better, like us.” That the Gospel is what Christ did for us—the gift of redemption, received by simple, humble, repentant, God-seeking faith.
  5. We need to act like we speak. To be humble & loving.  To soak in the spirit of Phil. 2:1-18.  That means heart transformation–we need to pray for God to change our hearts to be more like Christ.  So that we will do justly, and love mercy, and walk humbly.
  6. We all need to watch our own tendencies to stereotype & categorize.

Update: I added a “Part 4.5” to my series, with a couple more thoughts on dealing with stereotypes.

Update: Here’s the entire series:

Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 1: Slogans & the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 3: Hypocrisy, Stereotyping, and the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4: Dealing with Stereotypes
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4.5: P.S. On Dealing with Stereotypes

Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 3: Hypocrisy, Stereotyping, and the Gospel

Monday, February 2nd, 2009

Pt 1:  Slogans & the Gospel

Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans

Paul said in Romans 2, “you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.”  He’s talking about hypocrisy–doing what you criticize in other people.

Recently I’ve become increasingly aware of how often and how easily we fall into that.  With the best of intentions, we can wind up being hypocritical in practically everything.  It just slips in under our radar.


1.) Charity Police

In a post from October, I said:

If you read many blogs on the internet, you will find people who speak very uncharitably–they’re constantly unnecessarily harsh in tone and unreasonable in how they interpret others.  You will also find people who are obsessed with accusing others of being uncharitable.  You can call them charity police.  And those guys can be some of the least charitable people around–accusing others of uncharity at the drop of a hat or the slightest hint of language that isn’t excessively polite.  Majorly unreasonable & oversensitive.

We should be gracious with each other in addressing their mistakes–including mistakes of style.  And we shouldn’t be too quick to assume the worst.

Charity police can be the least charitable people on the internet.

2.) Liberals & stereotyping.

(Note: Everyone does this kind of thing, but there’s an extra element of hypocrisy when self-professed liberal people do it.)

As a general simplification:  The Liberal Ideal includes being open-minded & tolerant.

So it’s particularly unfortunate when a self-described liberal broadbrushes conservatives–as narrow-minded, as selfish, as hateful, or as smug, Pharisaical, self-righteous  judgmental jerks.  When a liberal thinks in stereotypes, seeing us through the filter of their preconceived ideas about us–without engaging & exploring & knowing us.

It’s frustrating being pigeonholed by someone who tells you how open-minded they are.

(I think the Prop 8 Musical is a good example of this.  More about that in…Uh, I think it’ll be Pt 5.  And I think my next entry will discuss what our response should be to this kind of stereotyping.)

Underlying Problems & Solutions

In a general sense, this happens because we’re messed-up, sinful people.  Even in our attempts to be good or identify good, we get twisted around.  And the solution will involve prayer, and humility, and being graceful toward each other when we screw up like this.  But I want to try to be a little more specific.

Problem #1: A comfortable lack of introspection

We start to rest on our laurels.  To be comfortable.  We form an image of ourselves, and live in the image, unaware of whether we’re living up to it.  We stop examining ourselves for consistency.  We begin to live without integrity.

If you haven’t yet, listen to the mp3 of Carson talking about integrity–our struggle when we see that who we are on in the inside isn’t the same as who we try to be on the outside.  Here’s the mp3.  Go to 1:05:20, and listen for about 4.5 minutes.

So, accept that you’re going to be a hypocrite sometimes.  Commit to finding out where it’s happening.  Commit to the struggle.  Keep examining yourself against the principles you claim to follow.  Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, and commit to the humility of Christ.

Problem #2:  Keeping score vs. the Gospel

The more we compete & try to keep score—winning arguments, or proving our worth—the more likely we are to form lying images in our minds.  The more we think that our salvation depends on keeping the rules & being “good people”, the more likely we are to cling to a positive image of ourselves.  And the less likely we are to probe our own life & heart, to find the inconsistencies.

If we live in a place of freedom—knowing that our hope is based on what Christ did—then it becomes easier to admit the problems, to look for more failures, and ask for grace from God to help us change.

And our lives proceed from our hearts.  So when we pray for change, we have to pray for a change of heart.  It means looking more to the life of Jesus, and falling in love with what we see.  The change grows from the longing that God gives us to see his goodness, and taste it in our own lives.  The change grows from the belief that it will be worth it to change, even when it’s hard & involves sacrifice.  “He who loses his life for my sake will find it.”

And the change will come from God’s strength & goodness, not ours.  “For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (Phil 2:13)  I started this series from Romans 1-2; when we get to Romans 7, we find Paul talking about this kind of struggle with inconsistency.  And in Romans 8, we find the words of blessed assurance that if we are in Christ, we will be made more like him–that he will be the firstborn of many brothers.  He searches our hearts, and knows what is there, which should be scary–but he is bending all of history, everything in our lives, to change us.

“Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.  And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.”  (Rom. 8:26-30)

Here’s the entire series:
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 1: Slogans & the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 3: Hypocrisy, Stereotyping, and the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4: Dealing with Stereotypes
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4.5: P.S. On Dealing with Stereotypes

Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans

Wednesday, January 7th, 2009

In the previous entry, I talked about how the Gospel should be at the center of anything we say about homosexuality–and this includes stressing the point that we are all sinners, and no one has the right to feel self-righteous. It’s interesting that Paul makes precisely that point when he talked about it.

Romans 1

Paul talks about homosexuality in Rom. 1:26-27, and then lists other sins in Rom. 1:28-32–like gossip and disobedience to parents.  So, I started pointing that out, when I wanted to show that–biblically–homosexuality is a sin among other sins. To show that everyone–including me–stands condemned in the same way. No one can be self-righteous.

It’s odd. For some reason, I didn’t notice that Paul seems to be making exactly that point. Then recently, it clicked.  When he lists “big” sins with “small” sins, he almost seems to bait a trap for the smugly self-righteous–letting the readers feel comfortable for a moment, before cutting them low.  (Though… See the P.S. at the end of the entry.)


Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 1: Slogans & the Gospel

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

Lately, I’ve been encountering the combined subjects of homosexuality, hypocrisy, and shallow interaction. I started writing one entry on homosexuality in Romans 1-2, but it ballooned, and became too much for one post. So this will be the first in a small series. (Hopefully, I can keep each post terse! It’s hard for me to be brief.)

The major theme will be “going deeper”. Which is pretty tough to do, consistently.

The Bible & Homosexuality

The biblical passages on homosexuality evoke strong reactions. Many people see them as harsh & mean-spirited. They’re associated with a self-righteous attitude of condemnation–a mindset that looks down on homosexuals as the worst of all sinners. A mindset that ostracizes and rejects. A mindset that doesn’t understand, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”


There are standard evangelical responses. The most common soundbite is, “Love the sinner, and hate the sin.” Unfortunately, it has two major problems.

  1. It’s a slogan–one that’s easy to spit out, regardless of whether there is any love in your life. It’s something Christian kids learn to say, without necessarily learning what it really looks like. So it can sound empty and hollow. Especially if people have been hurt by those who say it without living it.
  2. More importantly: It almost implies a lie. It almost implies that gay people are sinners–unlike us. It does nothing to counteract the bad assumption that gay people go to hell, but straight people are fine.  As though gay people are unique, as sinners, instead of everyone being in the same boat. Self-righteous condemnation.

Canned Answers

There are better slogans, maybe. (“We’re all sinners in need of a savior.” “Jesus said, ‘Judge not, lest ye be judged,’ but he also said, ‘Go and sin no more.'”) Pithy statements can be useful. Canned answers can help. But not when the canned answer reflects canned thinking. Not when the deeper truths aren’t deeply grasped, and lived out. Not when the only thing people hear is canned answers.

So we need to make sure that we know the truths behind the slogans, and that we live in accord with them. Our lives should be adorning the gospel.

Responding With the Gospel

When we talk about homosexuality, at the very core we need to be communicating the gospel. We need to be pointing to the universal need for salvation, and to the work of Christ to save us. To the need for repentance, to the need for trust in him, and to the power & sufficiency of trusting him, apart from any of our efforts to live well.

We’re sinners in need of a savior. Christians shouldn’t view ourselves as “righteous”, and scorn homosexuals as lowly sinners–everyone is together a sinner. And “not judging” doesn’t mean that we never say, “That’s wrong.” Rather, it means not condemning–we speak God’s grace to fellow sinners. In love. There’s no place for self-righteousness. When Christians understand Christ, then we respond with humility and grace and love and the free offer of the gospel. We look with love and care, in part because we know that we ourselves have been forgiven much.

When we understand the gospel, we cannot look down on anyone.


We need to get past slogans. Or we need to put meat on the slogans we profess. It includes communicating the gospel more clearly. That includes rooting out any hint of self-righteousness. It includes avoiding the perception of being noxious, holier-than-thou “Religious Types”, by living out lives of Christ-like, loving, humble service.

Here’s the entire series:
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 1: Slogans & the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 2: The Gospel in Romans
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 3: Hypocrisy, Stereotyping, and the Gospel
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4: Dealing with Stereotypes
Homosexuality & Hypocrisy Pt 4.5: P.S. On Dealing with Stereotypes

Why He’s Not Charismatic

Monday, December 29th, 2008

Michael Patton over at Parchment and Pen has been doing a series called, “Why I Am Not Charismatic”. He seems to be roughly in the “open but cautious” area. His thoughts–along with the comment sections–have been well worth the reading time, for anyone trying to think through & understand the subject. (It’s still in-progress, BTW.)

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3 – Prophecy and Healings
Part 4 – Excursus

If you’ve really got a lot of time, I would also recommend the series that Frank Turk (of the Pyromaniacs) wrote this fall. It began with a discussion of John Piper’s response to the Lakeland Revival, and went on from there. Compared to the P&P series, you’ll find that the tone of the discussion there will be a harder line against charismatics. If you’re charismatic, then you’ll probably end up being annoyed or offended at some of the comments. But there’s definitely some thoughtful material there. (Note: He never finished the last post.)

As a taste, here’s some of what he said in his second post:

I want to start with something I said in the meta a while ago which, I think, people need to keep in mind as we approach the question of how the Holy Spirit works in the church.

My opinion is that a “cautious” continualist and a “cautious” cessationist have way more in common that they have in contention. They agree that prayer is efficacious; they agree that God is the giver of all good things; they agree that the Christian has a privilege to ask God for his needs; they agree that we should rejoice when God supplies those needs.

The problem is when someone claims more than that, or less than that. I would say that those who fall outside of those affirmations put themselves in spiritual danger — a topic about which I am sure I have more I should write down.

Prophecy and Signs and Wonders
Not more, nor less
Signs and Wonders
The Wily Continualist
It never ends

Note: In both of these series, you’ll find the occasional comment from a debonair, clever, insightful individual whom I admire greatly for his humility and grace. 😀

An Exhausting Set of Questions on Tongues

Thursday, December 11th, 2008

As I’ve looked at the gift of tongues, I’ve found out that there’s a lot to work through. More than you might expect. The questions can get really complex. I want to find the straight-forward answers… But I want answers that seem to satisfy everything the Bible says about the gift.

I decided to write down all the questions & issues I can identify–every decision you have to make about the subject. What do you have to work through, when you’re studying it? Some of these have to do with the nature of the gift, and others are practical questions. Some are directly exegetical–about understanding a particular passage–and others are more general.

Note: Some of these questions have simple answers. Some seem like they have simple answers, but don’t. And maybe some seem complex to me, but they really aren’t. 🙂

Also Note: I’ve been sitting on this entry for a week or two, tweaking it & improving it.  I’m still not entirely happy with it… There are parts that might not be clear enough. But I can’t keep fiddling forever.

Invitation: If you can think of any additional questions, please, leave a comment. I’d like to make this as exhaustive as possible!

I. Summary: The Biggest Questions

  1. Is the gift of tongues still given today?
  2. Can all believers speak in tongues?
  3. Should all believers speak in tongues?
  4. Are tongues always directed to God, i.e. prayer or praise? Or does it include messages to other people?
  5. The gift of tongues seems to involve some kind of unlearned language. But is it a heavenly language–a “private prayer language”, i.e. glossalalia–or is it speaking in an unlearned human language? Or does it include both?
  6. Can you understand your own gift, when you speak it? Always? Ever?
  7. How are interpreted tongues to be practiced in church? 1 Cor. 14:28 says, “if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church“. How do you know if there’s someone to interpret?
  8. How does an uninterpreted tongue edify the speaker (1 Cor. 14:4)?
  9. Are there any differences between tongues in Acts and tongues in 1 Corinthians?
  10. What does it mean that tongues are a sign for the unbeliever, while prophecy is a sign for the believer? (1 Cor. 14:21-25) How does this fit into the flow of Paul’s argument? (Major question!)

Below I’ll list more questions–both additional questions, and more detailed questions about the above. (more…)

That Sensationalism Quote

Sunday, November 30th, 2008

A quick comment on the sensationalism quote that I posted last week:

This spring, when the Lakeland Revival was starting, I thought about writing a post on the general issue of sensationalism, along with “mountaintop experiences” like Christian camps or conferences or events. I didn’t so much want to evaluate Lakeland, as to talk about the proper place of “unusual/sensational” things in the life of the church. I wrote a couple drafts, but never finished one.

Carson did a fantastic job. He didn’t talk about everything there is to say–for instance, he didn’t directly compare the unusual/uncommon work of the Spirit with the regular work of the Spirit in the local church–but I absolutely love what he did say.

It reminds me of a Sam Storms quote that I heard about second-hand, recently. Something like: Biblical balance means pursuing everything the Bible teaches with exactly as much emphasis and enthusiasm as the Bible teaches us to have.

A Word About Thanks & the Spirit

Thursday, November 27th, 2008

Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.” 1 Thess. 5:16-22

People typically connect “Do not quench the Spirit” with the next verse, “Do not despise prophecies.” But I wonder if it’s also connected with the preceding verse, “Give thanks in all circumstances”. In other words, is grumbling & complaining–the opposite of thankfulness–a way of quenching the Spirit?

There seems to be a pretty consistent connection between thankfulness and the Spirit.

Thanksgiving is part of being filled with the Spirit:

“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” Eph. 5:18-21

Thanksgiving is part of walking in Christ:

“Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.” Col. 2:6-7

Thanksgiving is part of the word of Christ dwelling richly in us:

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” Col. 3:16-17

Speaking in tongues can be giving thanks with your spirit:

“Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?” 1 Cor. 14:16

Avoiding grumbling and complaining is part of working out our salvation with fear and trembling, and part of remaining blameless and innocent:

“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world” Phil. 2:12-15

So, it seems that being filled with the Spirit produces thanksgiving, and grumbling quenches the Spirit.

Carson on Sensationalism

Friday, November 21st, 2008

Edit: See That Sensationalism Quote for a brief introduction to the following.

“Yet another issue is a deeply ingrained love of sensationalism and triumphalism, and little knowledge of taking up one’s cross daily. I do not mean to suggest that any gift of tongues, say, or any “prophecy” as defined here, or any miraculous healing, should be ruled out because it might be thought “sensational.” To denigrate the “sensational” in so sweeping a way, a fairly common ploy among noncharismatics, would surely be to indict Jesus and Paul. Rather, the problem lies in love for sensationalism, in the unbiblical and unhealthy focus upon it. […] It magnifies the importance of what is, biblically speaking, relatively incidental, while ignoring the weightier matters: righteousness, holiness, justice, love, truth, mercy. It is constantly in danger of sacrificing integrity as the rush towards the sensational pelts on: stories of healings are blown out of proportion, so that the genuine instances are lost in exaggeration and distortion; evangelism loses out to manipulated outbursts of emotion […]; the straightforward and impassioned message of the cross, proclaimed by a Whitefield, is displaced by endless promises to solve personal problems; and only the Christians whose problems have evaporated and who enjoys perfect health has entered into the fullness of the riches Jesus promises. In the more extreme cases, the triumphalism is carried so far as to promise wealth as well: give your “seed money” to God (i.e., our organization), and watch God multiply it; you are the child of a king–do you not think your heavenly Father wants you to live in royal splendor? Believers who have meditated long on Matthew 10 or John 15:18-16:4, let alone believers in China, will not be impressed by this argument. [emphasis added]”

— D. A. Carson, Showing the Spirit: A Theological Exposition of 1 Corinthians 12-14, p. 173-174